No, All Christians Lie Because They are Mistaken??
Christians Don’t Lie They Are Mistaken??
Comment From Reader
Cheese Louis.
Google “lie vs mistake” and you get dozens of hits explaining the difference. To say Christianity is seriously mistaken is not hate speech. It is not even hate speech to say they may be deeply deluded. To say many of them are prejudiced bigots is not hate speech. But to say that “ALL” Christians are “liars” frankly IS hate speech, for obvious reasons. Here are a few of the copious links explaining the difference between a mistake and a lie.
The Distance Between a Mistake and a Lie
The Difference Between A Lie And A Mistake By Steve Benen
Even Italian children between the age of 3 and 5 seem to understand the difference between a mistake and a lie.
You could learn something from them. ~Jonathan Lynn Harvey
Dear Jonathan,
So claiming “some” Christians are liars does not constitute hate speech, but claiming all Christians are liars is hate speech because (as you seem to be arguing) there is a difference between them being mistaken and lying. Once again, you decided to compare apples and oranges, which I don’t mind since I am sure many Christians and obedient atheists mindlessly agree with you. More to the point, you provided fodder for my argument that ALL Christians are liars.
Yes, there is a difference between a lie and a mistake. If based on current facts, misinformation, or lack of understanding, you believe something to be true that is not, this is a mistake. From the time of Aristotle and before, the earth appeared to be the center of the universe based on observation, which, at the time, seemed reasonable. However, as new evidence grew in time that began disproving the geocentric theory of the universe, what did the church do? Declared the theory heresy.
The Italian astronomer Galileo Galilei was ordered to abandon the theory at the time and,
Sixteen years after his first encounter with the church Galileo published his “Dialogue on the Two World Systems” in 1632, and the pope, Urban VIII, ordered another investigation against him. This time he was prosecuted, following the usual methods of the Roman Inquisition.
One might argue the Pope was mistaken, but the church continued opposing the heliocentric view despite prior and future observational and mathematical evidence. Anything at odds with the church was and is today considered heresy. The point: if I show you an abundance of facts and figures showing the sun is the center of the solar system, and you refuse to accept this reality, you are lying to yourself. If you force this view on others, you have made them part of the lie, whether they consciously know it or not. Still, we could say these people are victims of the church and unwilling liars: more deluded than deceitful. However, this claim does not make them mistaken; it makes them indoctrinated and sadly does not excuse them from lying.
However one came to believe in a book thousands of years old about a God who decided to make the world in seven days and send his son to be murdered to somehow help us, doesn’t make the belief true, AND, requires extreme mental gymnastic feats of rationalizations and other lies to reconcile the belief with reality.
How Christians came to believe their nonsense, whether by mistake or by indoctrination, doesn’t matter because they are still lying to themselves. When people are confronted with mountains of evidence contrary to their beliefs and continue to assert they possess the truth, this is not a mistake; it is a willful, deceitful act perpetrated against themselves and others when they attempt to rationalize, convince, and especially if they force this view on other groups. You might be inclined to argue they are rationalizing, not lying. This is a meaningless semantical difference since rationalizing attempts to explain something without regard for the truth: a lie or deception.
At this point, Jonathan, your argument takes a turn for the worse because you have not clarified how claiming all Christians are liars is hate speech. Your claim that they are “mistaken” begs the question of how? How are Christians mistaken? Are you saying their crazy belief about Jesus, the Bible, or Christian indoctrination, which all of them found their beliefs on and claim as the truth, is a mistake? Remember, their belief is not just “their truth”; how could it be? If they believe in Christianity, whatever interpretation, they must extend their belief to everyone, or it is arbitrary. I would dare say all of them would argue they are not mistaken, no matter how liberal or conservative, and this makes them liars because if they truly are mistaken or deluded by indoctrination, there is still no way to reconcile Christianity without lying (rationalizing) and denying more reasonable explanations.
The mere fact someone can believe and justify to themselves any preposterous story that a supreme, infinite being caused the universe to exist and takes a personal interest in them is a total rejection of evidence to the contrary, and, here is the vital part Jonathan, to maintain this faith, “firm belief in something for which there is no proof,” means,
Faith is an act of lying.
The lie of faith, which all Christians maintain, becomes crystal clear when you present them with compelling contrary evidence since their refusal to accept or to continue arguing their position means they willfully ignore evidence to maintain their belief, mistake, or indoctrination, which constitutes self-deception: a lie.
You might argue they have the right to believe what they want, which I agree with wholeheartedly, but they are still lying.
There is no way to believe Christianity without lying to others but most of all — to yourself.